Saftey & sceneing 9-22-01 sex_grandmaster-d alright today's class is on safety in sceneing and use of safe words sex_grandmaster-d or to be more specific, situations that you may not be able to use words sex_grandmaster-d now to start can any of you tell Me why safe signals are necessary? sex_grandmaster-d looks at the class buttercup raises hand snhs_tender.morsel raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d bc? buttercup Sensei, i always thought safe signals were necessary to let the Dom know if things were getting too intense and should slow or stop for the sub's safety, Sir... sex_grandmaster-d nods buttercup (and also have heard Dom/me's can use safe words too) sex_grandmaster-d good one bc, morsel? snhs_tender.morsel i was going to say the same thing Sensei either physical or emotional safety sex_grandmaster-d nods sex_grandmaster-d bc would you like to expand on that statement? buttercup Which statement, Sensei Sir? the last one about Dom/me's using them as well do You mean? sex_grandmaster-d what situation would a Dom/me need or use a safe word for? sex_grandmaster-d smiles sgms_annie listens buttercup Honestly, i cannot think of a situation but have read and heard that safe words, though mostly used by subs, can also be for Dom/mes...that is all i really know, Sir... flamesoul raise her hand buttercup . o O ( by Dom/mes, not for Dom/mes i meant ) sex_grandmaster-d nods sex_grandmaster-d flame? flamesoul Sensei , in a situation where the sub isn't able or unwilling to safe word a Dom/me can ? sex_grandmaster-d no in that case the Dom/me just stops the scene, no need to call a safe word francescas_dragonwarrior raise my hand sex_grandmaster-d dw? francescas_dragonwarrior if the Dom/me feels that things are getting out of His/Her control Master? sex_grandmaster-d They should just stop the scene in that case also sex_grandmaster-d Ok let's define what the purpose of the safe word is buttercup listens and is dying for the answer sex_grandmaster-d purpose too sex_grandmaster-d who has that answer? snhs_tender.morsel raises her hand mstress-dream-d raises My hands sex_grandmaster-d morsel? snhs_tender.morsel to keep the Domme aware of your condition Sensei again that can be either physically or emotionally sex_grandmaster-d nods sex_grandmaster-d Dream? snhs_tender.morsel Dom/me even mstress-dream-d I was going to say it is a for of feed back to the Dom/me, so that They know how/where the subbie is at sex_grandmaster-d nods sex_grandmaster-d actually to be precise it is to let the Person in control know if the scene is becoming too intense or if you are in some emotional or physical trouble _vixen {enters} sex_grandmaster-d either the scene needs to be slowed down or stopped completely, or can be continued as it is going _vixen slips in and takes her seat francescas_dragonwarrior listens sex_grandmaster-d the universal safe words are green for go ahead, yellow for slow or caution, and red for stop buttercup listens intently sgms_annie {enters} sex_grandmaster-d red stops all action immediately sex_grandmaster-d now the only reason I can think of that a Dom/me would need a safe word is if they are a switch and may be in the sub position sex_grandmaster-d otherwise they are in control of the scene and if they feel they are becoming too intense or it is getting out of control then they should stop buttercup raises hand sex_grandmaster-d if the safe call is from the sub it should be honored immediately sex_grandmaster-d yes bc? buttercup i have always felt the same...if the Dom/me is in control, as They should be, They can just stop things and not need to call a safe word...and know i am wracking my brain trying to think of where i heard this... sex_grandmaster-d well please let Me know when you remember sex_grandmaster-d smiles buttercup Yes, i will, Sensei... sgms_annie . o O ( maybe confused with safe calls ) _vixen . o O ( or limits? ) buttercup . o O ( thinks hard....and tries to remember... ) sex_grandmaster-d now what if the scene involves a situation where you may not be able to speak easily or clearly, such as a gag or mask? _vixen raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d vixen? _vixen in that case i have seen people use a sign such as a peace sign ..or something that makes noise like a bell ...one was is to have the sub hold something and drop it to signal safe word sex_grandmaster-d correct vixen, in these situations a signal that is concise and clear must be devised sex_grandmaster-d and it must also be unmistakable as to it's meaning mstress-dream-d {leaves} sex_grandmaster-d since some scenes may involve bondage as well as a gag there must be some clear signal agreed on prior to the scene sex_grandmaster-d this should be done by the Dom/me and sub during the negotiation of the scene _vixen smiles sex_grandmaster-d assuming that you are sceneing with a regular Partner, these signals have usually been improved over time and several scenes sex_grandmaster-d on the other hand what if this is your first scene of this nature with Someone and they don't show a concern of how you are going to signal them if you are in trouble? sex_grandmaster-d looks around the class snhs_tender.morsel raises her hand buttercup raises hand sex_grandmaster-d morsel? snhs_tender.morsel then i would say don't scene with Them Sensei at all sex_grandmaster-d smiles sex_grandmaster-d bc? buttercup i suppose not sceneing with Them at all is the best...and the least would be speaking up and resolving it *before* the scene started to get it straight... sex_grandmaster-d nods _vixen would get the hell out of dodge sex_grandmaster-d My advice is don't scene and run like hell sex_grandmaster-d smiles _vixen smiles sweetly buttercup is taking advice...lol snhs_tender.morsel . o O ( tied and gagged in the middle of a scene is a bad time to find out They don't care ) sex_grandmaster-d now there are several devices that could be used for signaling, a bell, or one of these metal clickers for instance sex_grandmaster-d anything that makes a noise that is unmistakable sex_grandmaster-d a bell of course could be bumped accidentally and end the scene without cause sex_grandmaster-d the other consideration is that the sub must be able to utilize the chosen device sex_grandmaster-d for example if your wrists are bound such that you can't hold a bell then that will not work sex_grandmaster-d if it were one of the clickers and you can't apply the pressure to click it then that also is not a proper choice buttercup raises hand fandango {enters} sex_grandmaster-d so once the scene is commencing the signal that has been chosen should be tested and shown to be usable or the safety device is not good to you or the Dom/me sex_grandmaster-d yes bc? fandango *stands silently waiting*.....May i come in? sex_grandmaster-d come in and have a seat fandango, class is in progress fandango Thank You Sir, sorry I'm late _vixen smiles to fandango and pats the seat next to her buttercup Sensei, i am wondering if being told to hold something in one's hand and dropping it as the signal is a good way to safe word? sex_grandmaster-d nods and smiles _vixen has done that fandango seats himself next to vixen and skoyc sex_grandmaster-d I would say not bc, unless it makes a noise when dropped or otherwise is very obvious buttercup listens _vixen raises her hand francescas_dragonwarrior {leaves} sex_grandmaster-d that would also depend on where the Dom/me is in relation to where the item drops and how long it might be before they saw it sex_grandmaster-d although a good Dom/me would continually be checking to see if you were still holding the item sex_grandmaster-d vixen? _vixen when i used that method bc it was a large set of keys that would make noise if i dropped them ...but i had another tell me she would be afraid she would drop it unintentionally buttercup . o O ( has been worried about dropping thing unintentionally too...lol ) _vixen raises her hand again sex_grandmaster-d well of course the item could be placed back in your hand and the scene continue in that case, better safe than not *S* sex_grandmaster-d vixen? _vixen what else have You seen that was good Sensei ? sex_grandmaster-d unfortunately most means of signaling in these cases are adopted from common items such as keys or bells or other holdable items _vixen nods sex_grandmaster-d on the other end of the equation though it does require that the Dom/me keep their full attention and awareness on Their subject sex_grandmaster-d and for them to constantly check to make sure that you haven't signaled fandango Raises hand sex_grandmaster-d fandango? fandango If the Dom/me is doing Their duty, would They not already be doing that Sensei? sex_grandmaster-d in the ideal situation yes fandango sex_grandmaster-d smiles sex_grandmaster-d is it always an ideal situation? sgms_annie raises my hand sex_grandmaster-d annie? fandango shakes head sgms_annie maybe if it is public a 2nd P/person could watch? sex_grandmaster-d good point annie that is known as a spotter _vixen smiles to annie buttercup raises hand sex_grandmaster-d a spotter is also used at times to keep a clear playing field in cases of scenes that could be dangerous sex_grandmaster-d or more dangerous than normal *S* sex_grandmaster-d bc? _vixen giggles buttercup i'm confused...before it was said a Dom/me who did not have an interest in the sub having a safe word should not be scened with....but.... fandango raises hand sex_grandmaster-d nods to bc sex_grandmaster-d and your confusion is? buttercup and now W/we are talking about Dom/me too careless to pay attention...it is a fine line to me... buttercup . o O ( The end result can be the same anyway ) buttercup How does one know it is *okay*,Sensei?? sex_grandmaster-d ahhhhh not too careless bc, but the machinations of a scene may require concentration on many things at once buttercup listens _vixen raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d what we are talking about here is extra safety in any situation sex_grandmaster-d fandango? fandango Safe words or something telling the Dom/me that there is a need for either slowing down or stopping, either one is just as effective if the Dom/me and sub/slave agree on it, right Sensei? sex_grandmaster-d correct sex_grandmaster-d and it must be a clear unmistakable signal fandango sex_grandmaster-d vixen? _vixen i think a Dom/me having someone spot for Them ..either to watch the subs reactions or to keep other clear of an especially long flogger shows a greater concern for safety not in laziness or inattention sex_grandmaster-d correct vixen sex_grandmaster-d smiles _vixen inserts a z sex_grandmaster-d bc let Me give a hypothetical scene here buttercup listens sex_grandmaster-d that involves several elements at once _vixen leans forward to listen sex_grandmaster-d the sub is bound to a cross, feet tied wide hands spread at the top and then wrapped in cellophane sex_grandmaster-d essentially immoveable except for her hands and she is holding a set of keys that will be dropped if there is trouble sex_grandmaster-d the scene is taking place in public and there is a fan and other noises present, as well as other scenes going on within earshot sex_grandmaster-d maybe whips or floggers, things that could possibly muffle the noise of the keys dropping _vixen . o O ( loud subbies ) sex_grandmaster-d the Dom/me is in the process of cutting the cellophane from around her breasts sex_grandmaster-d with an extremely sharp knife sex_grandmaster-d smiles buttercup listens sex_grandmaster-d now this is not really a made up scene because I have seen it _vixen sits on her hands and listens to Sensei sex_grandmaster-d first question is where would you want the Dom/mes concentration to be at that moment? sex_grandmaster-d considering one slip of the knife could be more than adventurous sex_grandmaster-d looks at the class snhs_tender.morsel raises her hands _vixen raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d morsel? snhs_tender.morsel on that knife at my breasts Sensei sex_grandmaster-d I think that is a wise choice sex_grandmaster-d vixen? _vixen the knife Sensei *s* fandango raises hand sex_grandmaster-d nods and smiles sex_grandmaster-d fandango? buttercup . o O ( agrees...the knife ) starfury {leaves} sex_grandmaster-d I forgot to mention that the sub is gagged as well *S* sex_grandmaster-d winks and chuckles fandango Sensei, would it not also be a good idea in that situation to have someone watch the area around to make sure that the knife Handler was not bumped into? sex_grandmaster-d nods to fandango sex_grandmaster-d yes that could have a sudden result of the scene ending early sex_grandmaster-d now let's add the hypothetical portion, let's say that due to wiggling and squirming and other possible responses that the ropes around the wrists have gotten tighter and are beginning to cut off the circulation buttercup listens sex_grandmaster-d Someone cracks a whip two scenes away at the same time as the sub drops the keys to signal that there is a problem sex_grandmaster-d could the Dom/me miss it? _vixen nods yes buttercup . o O ( yes...definitely ) sex_grandmaster-d yes quite easily sex_grandmaster-d not because They didn't care or were being careless sex_grandmaster-d so in this case the spotter or observer is another safety net wanderingstarr-d {enters} buttercup understands fandango nods flamesoul {leaves} wanderingstarr-d waves and goes to the corner sex_grandmaster-d yes undoubtedly the Dom/me would check the bindings and ask if things were ok but they may have missed the cue during the time of extreme concentration that was needed for safety in another area sex_grandmaster-d nods to WS wanderingstarr-d nods _vixen smiles to WS Sir sex_grandmaster-d so the point is that the more complicated and dangerous the scene is the more safety factors that have to be in place sex_grandmaster-d these must be arranged and clear at the beginning of the scene sex_grandmaster-d looks at the class sex_grandmaster-d is there any questions? sgms_annie {leaves} sex_grandmaster-d any points of discussion? snhs_tender.morsel none here Sensei buttercup . o O ( none here ) _vixen raises her hand fandango shakes head sex_grandmaster-d vixen? _vixen i have only been gagged a few times Sensei and not in public ...but i probably could have got the word red out if i had to sex_grandmaster-d not a ball gag then I assume *S* and would it have been loud enough for the Dom/me to hear? _vixen until Someone knows you well i don't recommend being gagged too tight sex_grandmaster-d good point also vixen sex_grandmaster-d smiles sex_grandmaster-d ok to recap today's class then _vixen i don't know if it would have been loud enough Sensei ...but not having it too tight was for my safety _vixen blush ...sorry Sensei wanderingstarr-d before getting into the scene one should try and see if they can say the safe word fandango soft smile at vixen sex_grandmaster-d if the scene involves a situation that inhibits speech, then another method of certain signal recognition must be devised and put in place sex_grandmaster-d also the more complex and dangerous the scene is the more safety factors that should be involved, including a spotter to keep a clear space and watch for the safe signal wanderingstarr-d holds up a finger sex_grandmaster-d WS? wanderingstarr-d a small cheap bell held by the sub will alert the Dom if it is dropped by its ringing as it hits the floor sex_grandmaster-d nods _vixen smiles wanderingstarr-d very noticeable while intense concentration is being done sex_grandmaster-d that was discussed and pointed out earlier wanderingstarr-d nods sgms_annie {enters} sex_grandmaster-d and this is a good signaling device assuming that the noise level doesn't muffle the sound sex_grandmaster-d smiles wanderingstarr-d that tinkling is very jarring to my ears when I am having fun lol sex_grandmaster-d alright any other comments or questions? fandango raises hand sex_grandmaster-d fandango? fandango Sensei, the room in My house has carpet, what would You suggest in that case? sex_grandmaster-d that does complicate the use of a bell fandango nods sex_grandmaster-d have you seen the small key ring attachments that they sell in stores? sex_grandmaster-d you press a button and it makes the attached portion to the keys sound off fandango I'm not sure Sensei, what does it look like? sex_grandmaster-d I think they are called key finders sex_grandmaster-d it makes a whistling or warbling sound when the remote button is pressed fandango Oh, yes Sensei. they are also sort of used as body alarms Sensei. sex_grandmaster-d the Dom/me could pin the key ring portion to their hair or shoulder and the sub hold the button sex_grandmaster-d of course if it is real loud then it could just be placed close to the scene fandango good idea, thanks for that thought Sensei. fandango smiles sex_grandmaster-d nods to fandango sex_grandmaster-d you're welcome fandango sex_grandmaster-d anything else? sex_grandmaster-d smiles to the class sex_grandmaster-d alright then class is dismissed