Jealousy 10-12-2002 sex_grandmaster-d strolls to the front of the class lauraleigh cuddles up with mag on my BIG fluffy pillow magical_one cuddles with laurie grinning sgms_annie takes a seat and smiles helene {enters} sex_grandmaster-d I guess morsel and dw are having a problem? helene they are no longer online clytemnestra grumbling at ie earlier! sex_grandmaster-d alright who all was here last week? sex_grandmaster-d smiles and looks around the class clytemnestra raises his hand lauraleigh raises her hand helene ~doesn't raise her hand sgms_annie was at a football game sex_grandmaster-d and how many have worked on what was discussed last week? lauraleigh raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d how did it go laurie? clytemnestra i have spent some time trying to think about it sex_grandmaster-d nods to clyte lauraleigh well it may not be a fair week to ask that as i am having a very emotional time right now... morsel_n_dw {enters} lauraleigh but helene ~raises hand lauraleigh good all in all sex_grandmaster-d wb morsel and dw lauraleigh welcome back morsel and dw sex_grandmaster-d good laurie, any progress is good morsel_n_dw slips back in and take some seats sex_grandmaster-d yes helene? morsel_n_dw thank Y/you A/all helene may i please have the title of the class so i can look it up? morsel_n_dw {leaves} helene ooh..wait...its ok. it doesn't work that way sex_grandmaster-d yes there is an index on the far left, but the class isn't posted as of yet helene ok thank you. apologize for the interruption then morsel_n_dw {enters} sex_grandmaster-d when it's up it will be titled How to balance D/s with vanilla life helene thank you. sex_grandmaster-d nods and marks that down so I remember it lauraleigh giggles sex_grandmaster-d . o O ( hey short term memory loss is a bitch ) helene giggles lauraleigh i can imagine sex_grandmaster-d alright are there any suggestions for class subject today? morsel_n_dw no Master/Sir sex_grandmaster-d looks around clytemnestra i believe that You were mentioning 'jealousy' last week, Sir clytemnestra ? sex_grandmaster-d nothing burning a hole in your brain for knowledge? sex_grandmaster-d yes I did clyte *S* helene that's a good one sex_grandmaster-d ok jealousy it is then sex_grandmaster-d One of the common situations in the BDSM lifestyle is an M/M with more than one sub sex_grandmaster-d with many this creates a problem morsel_n_dw listen sex_grandmaster-d today W/we will examine the causes of those problems including the ones that are generated by the Dominant sex_grandmaster-d what is the root of jealousy? sex_grandmaster-d anyone? magical_one fear lauraleigh fear magical_one grins to her smart sissy lauraleigh pokes her sissy sgms_annie raises my hand clytemnestra the desire for a greater share of the M/M's attentions (?) sex_grandmaster-d raise your hands to be called on please ladies sex_grandmaster-d smiles sex_grandmaster-d fear of what? lauraleigh raises her hand.. clytemnestra . o O ( sorry ) helene ~raises hand sex_grandmaster-d laurie? lauraleigh fear of loosing, fear of not getting sgms_annie raises my hand sex_grandmaster-d ok helene? lauraleigh fear of not being enough helene insecurity on your part that the one you love may find someone that appeals to him /her more and abandon you magical_one raises her hand sgms_annie lowers my hand lauraleigh raises her hand.. sex_grandmaster-d magic? magical_one helene is right, fear is based and rooted in being rejected by the One we love sex_grandmaster-d nods sex_grandmaster-d laurie? lauraleigh thank You lauraleigh IF there is communication.. lauraleigh there shouldn't be the jealousy? shrugs sex_grandmaster-d well your getting ahead of the class laurie *S* lauraleigh oO sorry magical_one nodsnods... sex_grandmaster-d so actually fear is the symptom and can take many forms sex_grandmaster-d helene is right about the root cause which is insecurity sex_grandmaster-d however it manifests itself as these many fears and concerns sex_grandmaster-d why is that? helene . o O ( doesn't understand the question ) sex_grandmaster-d why does it show up as the fear of losing someone or being left? helene . o O ( thank you. ) helene raises hand sex_grandmaster-d or numerous other symptoms as well sex_grandmaster-d yes helene? helene because 1.no one likes to be rejected it makes them feel like less of a person 2. they might wind up feeling humiliated if another has the upper hand 3. you love that person so much, you don't want to lose them helene want them all to yourself helene and want them to just want you sex_grandmaster-d well those are symptoms and concepts not actually the cause *S* sex_grandmaster-d those are called labels helene the cause is insecurity lauraleigh raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d they are feelings and are generated by the insecurity, but I'm looking for something deeper still sex_grandmaster-d laurie? lauraleigh for me its i am doubting something from inside myself...it could be a little comment lauraleigh that sets if off or a little look.. helene good point lauraleigh it doesn't have to another lauraleigh "another" lauraleigh it always comes back to me sex_grandmaster-d ok I think you're getting to a catalyst which W/we will consider later lauraleigh i am going to hush lol sex_grandmaster-d what is deeper than insecurity that no one wants to face? sex_grandmaster-d in essence it is the cause of insecurity helene jealousy lol morsel_n_dw m - raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d ahhhh trying for a vicious circle I see LOL lauraleigh feeling less than.. sex_grandmaster-d morsel? helene hee hee always ~winks morsel_n_dw self doubt Sensei ? clytemnestra raises his hand sex_grandmaster-d no that's another word for insecurity helene distrust morsel_n_dw hmm sex_grandmaster-d clyte? clytemnestra the loosening of the all-important bonding sex_grandmaster-d laurie was close to what I am looking for morsel_n_dw m - raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d morsel? morsel_n_dw low self esteem Sensei? sex_grandmaster-d certainly a cause of the work I am looking for *S* sex_grandmaster-d word not work lauraleigh hms morsel_n_dw m - raises her hand again 3rd try sex_grandmaster-d ok morsel? sex_grandmaster-d smiles sgms_annie watches morsel_n_dw was going to say inadequacy Sensei or feeling inadequate but i think that may be another word for low self esteem sex_grandmaster-d bingo morsel morsel_n_dw m - woohoo morsel_n_dw . o O ( i got a bingo ) lauraleigh giggles sex_grandmaster-d Inadequacy ..... or feeling that you are inadequate in some way sex_grandmaster-d this leads to you feeling insecure about your position sex_grandmaster-d and this becomes manifested in the symptoms of doubt or fears sex_grandmaster-d now then why is this a common pattern? morsel_n_dw m - raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d what did the fears have in common with each other? sex_grandmaster-d morsel? morsel_n_dw i think with adequate proper communication Sensei it wouldn't be a problem sex_grandmaster-d perhaps but W/we haven't gotten there yet morsel sex_grandmaster-d smiles morsel_n_dw m - nods and hushes and listens further sex_grandmaster-d didn't they all have the idea that someone else was going to either do something or not do something? morsel_n_dw m - raises her hand again...... sex_grandmaster-d morsel? helene not necessarily. helene oops morsel_n_dw fear of loss or rejection Sensei sex_grandmaster-d someone else rejecting you or losing to someone else right? sex_grandmaster-d helene? morsel_n_dw yes Sensei helene that's not always the case... helene but in this subject, its appropriate..and i don't want to fall off topic sex_grandmaster-d give Me some examples in jealousy that it doesn't apply helene sex_grandmaster-d smiles helene ok helene say you are walking through a mall with a man that you know would never cheat on you for the world...you trust him with all your heart and soul sex_grandmaster-d nods helene all the sudden a beautiful leggy blond walks by..and you can't help but notice him look at her from the corner of his eye sex_grandmaster-d nods helene its not that you are afraid he will cheat on you..but the knowing he may want her and you are the only thing standing in his way can make you feel like you are not giving him what he wants helene sometimes just the knowing is enough lauraleigh raises her hand.. sex_grandmaster-d yes but it's still based on His reaction isn't it? isn't that someone else? lauraleigh takes her hand down sex_grandmaster-d he may not take any action but His reaction is what is causing the pangs of jealousy helene i was just disagreeing with the statement all jealousy stems from thinking your partner is going to do or not do something. that's all. its really not important and probably a comment i should have kept to myself. i'm sorry helene yes ~smiles sex_grandmaster-d ok let Me broaden it to thinking your partner may also desire to do something or someone *S* helene giggles ~thank you lauraleigh raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d in any case the cause of the green-eyed monster jumping up is normally from an external cause is it not? sex_grandmaster-d can W/we all agree on that? sgms_annie yes sex_grandmaster-d yes laurie? lauraleigh where's the trust? heck my Master flirts all the time i think its funny clytemnestra nods sex_grandmaster-d getting ahead of class again laurie LOL lauraleigh o sorry lauraleigh hushes sex_grandmaster-d and trust actually has nothing to do with the root cause I am looking at here magical_one raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d magic? magical_one yes, i agree, we all choose how to react to an external cause...jealousy is just one way sex_grandmaster-d nods sex_grandmaster-d and it is based on your level of security or insecurity is it not? magical_one yes Sir, it is sex_grandmaster-d and can W/we agree that insecurity is caused by feelings of inadequacy? morsel_n_dw nod lauraleigh how about 95 per cent of the time? sex_grandmaster-d so how do W/we deal with the feelings of inadequacy? sex_grandmaster-d ok laurie give Me and example of the 5 percent sex_grandmaster-d smiles morsel_n_dw m - raises her hand lauraleigh okies helene never let our mate leave the house ever ever again. lauraleigh when i see a sub deliberately flirting with Another it infuriates me the lack of respect that is not a n inadequate feeling sex_grandmaster-d raise hands for recognition please ladies lauraleigh oh You asked pouts sex_grandmaster-d I wouldn't classify that as jealousy laurie helene . o O ( he was referring to the obnoxious brunette ) sex_grandmaster-d yes I was referring to you helene but not in that term sex_grandmaster-d smiles helene ~s~ excalibur {enters} sex_grandmaster-d do you have another example laurie? lauraleigh nope lauraleigh i am going to be quiet sex_grandmaster-d do you think that really classifies as jealousy? lauraleigh now that i think of it no Sir sex_grandmaster-d nods and smiles sex_grandmaster-d morsel? morsel_n_dw m - tries to remember the question she was going to answer sex_grandmaster-d . o O ( short term memory loss ) magical_one raises her hand morsel_n_dw oh i got it Sensei sex_grandmaster-d magic? morsel_n_dw m - laffs at herself sex_grandmaster-d go ahead morsel sex_grandmaster-d remember yours magic LOL excalibur {leaves} morsel_n_dw it was how we handle feelings of inadequacy wasn't it Sensei? magical_one i believe that the original subject was one of a Dom taking two submissives/slaves and the feelings that creates excalibur {enters} magical_one i would venture to guess that the other sub is feeling insecure at times as well, an sex_grandmaster-d no actually that was just an example to start the topic magic sex_grandmaster-d the topic is actually jealousy sex_grandmaster-d and you are right on your supposition about the other sub/slave helene isn't the topic jealousy? helene oops sex_grandmaster-d yes morsel that was the question sex_grandmaster-d helene please raise your hand to be recognized helene sorry. sex_grandmaster-d smiles magical_one raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d your answer morsel? morsel_n_dw m - nods i try learn all i can about the thing i feel inadequate in do the best i can and be happy that i am trying my best i will not be perfect at everything acceptance of that is important Sensei sex_grandmaster-d ok that's good morsel *S* magic? magical_one my point was the only way to deal with inadequate feelings is to talk to your Dom about your feelings so lauraleigh agrees magical_one he can help you deal with the feelings you're having sex_grandmaster-d MMmmmmmm that will help of course but that isn't the only way magical_one . o O ( sorry i have trouble typing here ) magical_one therapy? lauraleigh raises her hand magical_one grins sex_grandmaster-d LOL yes therapy helps sex_grandmaster-d laurie? lauraleigh i find if i share with another sub/or Female it helps me get things into perspective lauraleigh i also write like an inventory sex_grandmaster-d alright now W/we are getting somewhere lauraleigh to get to the bases of the issue lauraleigh raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d putting things into perspective magical_one raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d yes laurie? clytemnestra raises his hand lauraleigh it is not pleasant to always whine over silly things when.. lauraleigh in truth it can resolved with out worrying my Master magical_one when i was r/l with my last Dom, He insisted i write daily journals, which magical_one oops magical_one sorry lauraleigh lord knows He has enough to deal with sex_grandmaster-d go ahead magic LOL magical_one helped him understand all the feelings i felt about certain issues sex_grandmaster-d nods sex_grandmaster-d clyte? magical_one it gave him time to think about it before he acted and we talked then lauraleigh nods clytemnestra but what if you're a perfectionist, and you are never satisfied that what you are doing is good enough and you feel that you want to do/ should be doing better? sex_grandmaster-d that is a problem of perspective clyte definitely clytemnestra you never really catch up with yourself then sex_grandmaster-d anyone else before W/we get back to the subject sex_grandmaster-d looks at the class morsel_n_dw not here Sensei sex_grandmaster-d alight those that were here last week will have a step up on how to deal with inadequacy sex_grandmaster-d first it requires knowing your good points and bad points sex_grandmaster-d then putting those in perspective of the overall picture sex_grandmaster-d this is a self help procedure by the way and can be done without any outside help sex_grandmaster-d you must be realistic about your qualities and faults sex_grandmaster-d some can't be changed and they have to be accepted by you sex_grandmaster-d not anyone else but you magical_one raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d magic? magical_one i had a Dom tell me the other night my good and bad points, does that count? He was pretty right on! magical_one grins lauraleigh laughs and hugs her sis sex_grandmaster-d it only counts if you agree with each point magical_one ohhhhhhhh i did,,i did Sir sex_grandmaster-d nods sex_grandmaster-d once these are identified then you must deal with them sex_grandmaster-d the first step after identification is to categorize them sex_grandmaster-d two main categories sex_grandmaster-d changeable and not changeable sex_grandmaster-d sub categories of I want to change these sex_grandmaster-d and I don't want to change these sex_grandmaster-d now what are some of the things that might cause feelings of inadequacy that you can't change? sex_grandmaster-d looks around morsel_n_dw m - raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d morsel? lauraleigh raises her hand morsel_n_dw a lot feel inadequate with their looks in some way Sensei that can't be changed but the way you feel about it can usually there is little basis for it to begin with sex_grandmaster-d nods clytemnestra nods sex_grandmaster-d laurie? lauraleigh i personally feel that a list like this should be done with ones Master not alone..so W/we can work together..thus i don't feel overwhelms... lauraleigh overwhelmed lauraleigh and encouraged sgms_annie raises my hand magical_one agrees sex_grandmaster-d if you feel more comfortable doing that laurie it is perfectly alright, however the goal is for you to be comfortable with yourself first sex_grandmaster-d annie? sgms_annie height is about the only one i can think of that can't be changed Master sex_grandmaster-d how about color of eyes? sgms_annie yes contacts Master *S* sgms_annie . o O ( used to have green ones ) sex_grandmaster-d that just covers the problem it doesn't change it annie sgms_annie true Master *S* magical_one raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d ok the point is being skirted around here LOL sex_grandmaster-d magic? magical_one , age, sex lauraleigh lol sex_grandmaster-d well sex can be changed LOL magical_one OMG! lol lauraleigh lordy sex_grandmaster-d age however is between you and you lauraleigh covers her mouth laughing so sex_grandmaster-d sorry but that is true I know a person personally that changed from a he to a she lauraleigh so do i excalibur knows 3 sex_grandmaster-d now let's quit skirting the subject and finding ways to avoid it shall W/we? sex_grandmaster-d the fact is that you and no one else has to deal with these issues sex_grandmaster-d you can bring up a fault and I can say " oh that doesn't matter" sex_grandmaster-d but does that deal with it? or change the way you perceive it? sex_grandmaster-d not likely sex_grandmaster-d this requires some self-honesty here sex_grandmaster-d until you are comfortable with what you perceive as a fault it doesn't matter what I say or your Master or Mistress says excalibur raises My hand sex_grandmaster-d it will still be there ready to poke its little head out of the mud and cause you problems of inadequacy sex_grandmaster-d yes Ex? excalibur Just a thought. sex_grandmaster-d nods excalibur I can't think of anything that can't be changed or camouflaged if it's a physical thing like height or eye color if one absolutely feels that necessity. sex_grandmaster-d true Ex but camouflaging something doesn't solve the feeling of inadequacy excalibur nods lauraleigh amen excalibur But it may boost the feelings of helping oneself while working on them. sex_grandmaster-d this is really the core of the subject, as soon as you remove the colored contacts or the riser shoes sex_grandmaster-d the problem is still there if you haven't dealt with it excalibur . o O ( I agree fully on that. ) clytemnestra raises his hand sex_grandmaster-d clyte? clytemnestra but camouflage merely hides the problem, and presents a false picture clytemnestra rather like wearing a wig if one is bald sex_grandmaster-d agreed clyte but it may help temporarily clytemnestra personally, i would hate to wear a wig sex_grandmaster-d as long as the wind doesn't blow your toupee off sex_grandmaster-d so to deal with the issues, they have to be defined sex_grandmaster-d and you have to accept them as they are either changeable, such as personality traits or attitudes sex_grandmaster-d and non changeable such as height, eye color, body type sex_grandmaster-d now here's the good part that will help you come to acceptance of the ones that are basically unchangeable morsel_n_dw listens closely sex_grandmaster-d think about this for moment sex_grandmaster-d were you wearing the wig or toupee when you were picked by your M/M? sex_grandmaster-d did you have leg extenders or shorteners on? morsel_n_dw . o O ( no ) lauraleigh . o O ( nope i was me ) sex_grandmaster-d were you wearing colored eyes? sex_grandmaster-d so that means that there is a good chance that those articles you are labeling as faults sex_grandmaster-d actually aren't in the equation morsel_n_dw m - raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d morsel? morsel_n_dw what of the things that happened to alter your physical appearance long after you were with your M/M Sensei? what you are now is not what He/She picked in the beginning sex_grandmaster-d well if They are shallow enough to leave because you change physically then you are better off without them lauraleigh amen sex_grandmaster-d let Me qualify that a bit though *S* morsel_n_dw He wouldn't Sensei but i am still battling with being comfortable with it sex_grandmaster-d physical changes that you can do something about are up to you to change or move back to what they were sex_grandmaster-d an example would be extreme weight gain or loss sex_grandmaster-d losing a kidney or stretch marks from having babies, or being impaired due to an accident is not something that should be an issue sex_grandmaster-d and again let Me stress the point that until you are satisfied with the so called fault nothing is going to change morsel_n_dw m - nods sex_grandmaster-d it may go into hiding but it will rise up and revolt again somewhere down the road sex_grandmaster-d now what this requires is that you can say to yourself .... "well if He/She leaves me because I am too short then I don't need Him" sex_grandmaster-d or the opposite maybe you are too tall *S* sex_grandmaster-d any questions at this point? sex_grandmaster-d comments? morsel_n_dw m - shakes her head no sex_grandmaster-d moving on to the things that you can change sex_grandmaster-d if you are happy with them don't change them sex_grandmaster-d if after looking seriously and realistically at them you really want to change them then do so sex_grandmaster-d BUT!!! sex_grandmaster-d change because you want it, change for you not anyone else lauraleigh agrees lauraleigh raises my hand sex_grandmaster-d deal with the things that make you feel inadequate and you will be better prepared to deal with jealousy if it exists sex_grandmaster-d laurie? lauraleigh IF i change something for Someone else to try to please .. i will soon resent and that will cause other issues sex_grandmaster-d correct laurie sex_grandmaster-d smiles lauraleigh smiles sex_grandmaster-d now again let Me clarify that I am talking about personal characteristics and perceived thoughts sex_grandmaster-d changing your behavior on certain things that your M/M wants you to do is part of training and behavior sex_grandmaster-d not the same as changing yourself internally sex_grandmaster-d alright any questions or comments? morsel_n_dw none here Sensei sex_grandmaster-d looks around the class and considers waking them all up lauraleigh . o O ( is awake ) clytemnestra . o O ( is busy making notes ) lauraleigh . o O ( mag had to afk for a moment ) sex_grandmaster-d ok regarding the help with this sex_grandmaster-d remember that your M/M is going to have a different point of view on these so called faults and They picked you for what you appear to be as much as A/anyone can see what another person is in actuality sex_grandmaster-d you are harboring these faults deep down and in some cases are not aware of them yourself sex_grandmaster-d so it may require an ongoing open discussion of your feelings so they are brought out to you sex_grandmaster-d your Dominant can help you see them and point out what they consider immaterial sex_grandmaster-d however in the final analysis you have to be happy with who you are to believe that your Dominant is happy with you sex_grandmaster-d does that make sense to you? sex_grandmaster-d smiles morsel_n_dw yes Sensei clytemnestra nods lauraleigh of course magical_one nods lauraleigh . o O ( except when your being female giggles ) sex_grandmaster-d and settling these issues will eliminate most if not all of the causes of jealousy sex_grandmaster-d or at least give you a handle on the problem sex_grandmaster-d any questions? morsel_n_dw no Sensei sex_grandmaster-d comments? clytemnestra no questions, Sensei sex_grandmaster-d alright then class is dismissed