Emotional Balance 11-2-2002 sex_grandmaster-d class is starting now and the subject will be Emotional Balance sex_grandmaster-d I think your definition of the subject is essentially complete magic so W/we will go on that premise sex_grandmaster-d smiles magic smiles and nods morsel_n_dw listen sex_grandmaster-d Now .... before continuing I want to reiterate a statement that I haven't for quite some time in the classes sex_grandmaster-d the teaching I do here in class is based on My experience, knowledge and opinions sex_grandmaster-d it is not necessarily written in stone nor is it delivered from God sex_grandmaster-d therefore if it fits what Y/you find logical and correct you may accept it, if not then discount it sex_grandmaster-d or pick and choose as Y/you see fit sex_grandmaster-d The Important thing is that Y/you are thinking sex_grandmaster-d smiles morsel_n_dw nod a_learning_dom Nods sex_grandmaster-d as I said I feel that this is an extension of several classes together the first being wants and needs sex_grandmaster-d I suggest that you read that class for deeper coverage of that subject sex_grandmaster-d but the prime objective there is to be able to define what truly is a need and what is something that you want magic makes a note sex_grandmaster-d this is something that is listed and then discussed between Dom/me and the submissive sex_grandmaster-d your Dom/me is responsible for helping you determine the difference between a need and want if there is question on it and then deciding what you will actually get from the wants column sex_grandmaster-d what happens from the need column? sex_grandmaster-d looks around the class brodies_lauraleigh raises her hand... sex_grandmaster-d laurie? brodies_lauraleigh the needs are something i think that are a necessary "item" and have to be worked on and to continuously kept aware of.. brodies_lauraleigh i can walk away from a want brodies_lauraleigh but not a need sex_grandmaster-d well that is the determination process but what happens with the needs? sex_grandmaster-d anyone? magic raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d magic? asmodai_d {enters} sex_grandmaster-d nods to Asmo magic well Sensei, if its been determined to be a true need, then it either gets satisfied or placed on the want list asmodai_d nods to A/all.... sex_grandmaster-d if it's a true "need" it stays in the need list sex_grandmaster-d smiles magic yes Sensei sex_grandmaster-d Once it has been determined to be a need by you and your Dom/me then it is the Dom/mes responsibility to see to it that the need is fulfilled magic nods sex_grandmaster-d presuming of course that the need is within reason morsel_n_dw nod magic raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d sorry I had to answer the door sex_grandmaster-d magic? magic so what happens when the need is not within reason, Sensei? sex_grandmaster-d I was just getting to that *S* magic bites her tongue magic . o O ( sorry ) sex_grandmaster-d it is up to your Dom/me to determine the reasonableness of the need or to explain why it isn't reasonable and help you find a compromise magic raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d yes magic? magic yes, Sensei i believe it is up to the Dom/me...since They are the Ones in control... if a compromise can be found... lady_francesca_d {enters} sex_grandmaster-d nods lady_francesca_d quietly takes a seat sex_grandmaster-d nods to Fran morsel_n_dw dw smiles to my Mistress lady_francesca_d nods to SGM lady_francesca_d smiles to dw magic sorry, i'm not uses to this chat forum yet magic used sex_grandmaster-d now the purpose of the needs and wants list is to begin helping achieve a balance in what you have to have to stay in the submissive mind set and what you would like to have as an ideal morsel_n_dw nod and listen magic raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d the making of the list and going over it with your Dom/me begins to set the boundaries and a point of view magic lowers her hand sex_grandmaster-d it also opens the channels of communication which is covered more completely in that class sex_grandmaster-d however communication must always be open in order for the relationship to work at it's best sex_grandmaster-d and the needs and wants is subject to change over periods of time magic nods thinking asmodai_d looking at SGM? sex_grandmaster-d with each possible change it must be discussed and agreed upon before it is effective sex_grandmaster-d Asmo? sex_grandmaster-d a question? *S* asmodai_d I believe the needs and wants provide a map for growth in the relationship....without it things grow stagnant....I learned that the hard way... sex_grandmaster-d I believe that is what I am stating here Asmo *S* asmodai_d A Dom/me as well as the submissive must be willing to learn and grow... john_g0767 {enters} brodies_lauraleigh {leaves} a_learning_dom raises his hand sex_grandmaster-d the reason there are changes is due to the fact that as the relationship grows the needs will change to accommodate that growth lil.red.ridinghood {enters} sex_grandmaster-d Learning? brodies_lauraleigh {enters} lil.red.ridinghood sneaks in and sits quietly a_learning_dom And as you grow the needs and wants will lesson? sex_grandmaster-d not necessarily Learning, in actuality the list will grow a_learning_dom Nods magic smiles asmodai_d nodding in agreement with SGM... morsel_n_dw dw raises my hand sex_grandmaster-d the rate of growth however will vary depending on the rate of growth sex_grandmaster-d dw? lil.red.ridinghood blinks at Sensei's last statement morsel_n_dw though the priority placed on any particular need would change with time Master? sex_grandmaster-d growth of the list will depend on the rate of the growth of the relationship lil.red.ridinghood nods sex_grandmaster-d sorry for the incomplete statement *S* sex_grandmaster-d that is also true in some cases dw morsel_n_dw dw - nods sex_grandmaster-d this continual process is the foundation of Emotional Balance sex_grandmaster-d communication is the tool that moves the process along magic raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d in other words as new things enter into the equation it is your responsibility to let your Dom/me know lil.red.ridinghood leans over to peak at dw's notes so she can participate in the conversation sex_grandmaster-d magic? brodies_lauraleigh raise her hand sex_grandmaster-d it is the Dom/mes responsibility to keep you appraised of changes from His point of view and to help determine the validity of your change magic so what You're saying Sensei is that as long as it's in writing and communicated between sub Dom/me, then that will help keep the sub emotionally balanced? magic she/he has boundaries morsel_n_dw listen magic so to speak sex_grandmaster-d it is the foundation of it magic as it gives you a foundation to go back and look at in order to ground yourself magic nods smiling... sex_grandmaster-d did that answer your question magic? magic yes thank You, Sensei sex_grandmaster-d I wasn't sure on the boundaries comment *S* sex_grandmaster-d laurie? brodies_lauraleigh ok Sensei, what do you do when there are times in your Doms life and they just cant handle it? magic part of the grounding magic hushes sex_grandmaster-d at this point laurie you have to determine how critical the time factor is on the needs sex_grandmaster-d this has to do with Patience asmodai_d SGM read my mind on that point brodies_lauraleigh nods slowly sex_grandmaster-d in other words is it absolutely mandatory that it be met in the next hour? sex_grandmaster-d can it wait a day? or a week? brodies_lauraleigh raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d secondly have the needs and wants actually been defined and placed in order by your Dom/me? sex_grandmaster-d laurie? brodies_lauraleigh ok a thought is there a way to resolve it in a subs mind to make her him comfy to go on until it is able to be discussed? sex_grandmaster-d I believe there is laurie brodies_lauraleigh may i ask how please Sensei? sex_grandmaster-d again going back to the class on Patience *S* sex_grandmaster-d a trait that is well learned by both sub and Dom/me lil.red.ridinghood . o O ( especially when the sub lives and works out in the boonies ) sex_grandmaster-d if there is a problem with the time to discuss the needs and wants the subject should be broached and a time that is convenient to discuss it make sex_grandmaster-d made rather lady_francesca_d raises My hand sex_grandmaster-d at that point you have to exercise patience in waiting for that time sex_grandmaster-d Fran? lady_francesca_d I think this is one of the times that every sub should have a Protector for. The Protector can try to help the sub be patient and find the balance to wait until their Dom/me is ready to discuss it. sex_grandmaster-d well I would say more like has the time to discuss it Fran, but otherwise yes a Protector can help in some of those efforts lady_francesca_d nods to You morsel_n_dw dw nods as i listen sex_grandmaster-d perhaps the question that needs asking at this point is why do you feel that it needs an immediate resolution? sex_grandmaster-d and then you should look at the answer you have given and see if it is lack of patience or something deeper lil.red.ridinghood . o O ( ok i can't take "it" any more! what "it" is E/everybody talking about? i'm feeling very slow and sorry i didn't arrive on time ) asmodai_d smiles at red.... sex_grandmaster-d another key factor that I feel is necessary to keep the Emotional Balance is covered in the class on Balance lil.red.ridinghood sits quietly sex_grandmaster-d and that is self examination and knowing who and what you are as well as what you expect from the relationship sex_grandmaster-d then determine if your expectations are reasonable lil.red.ridinghood is still working on her homework from that class sex_grandmaster-d because regardless of how much your Dom/me gives you in needs if your expectations are unrealistic then it will never be enough sex_grandmaster-d is this making sense to you? sex_grandmaster-d smiles at the class morsel_n_dw nod magic nods agreeing lil.red.ridinghood puts a few more pieces together and begins to see a ray of hope for understanding sex_grandmaster-d smiles at red asmodai_d raises my hand sex_grandmaster-d The subject today red is Emotional Balance sex_grandmaster-d yes Asmo? lil.red.ridinghood nods to Sensei asmodai_d I would also say that many times the sub is hesitant to broach a subject with their Partner, it is up to the Dom/me to look for signs that the sub has questions on something.... lil.red.ridinghood raises her hand a_learning_dom raises his hand sex_grandmaster-d this is also true and a responsibility of the Dom/me however it is not as easily done as said because it is often subdued by the submissive sex_grandmaster-d red? canplay {enters} canplay apologizes for the interruption and seeks permission to enter brodies_lauraleigh smiles and pulls cany by us asmodai_d I try to make sure my partner never fear to ask Me anything, and set aside time every week to discuss any thing the sub wishes... sex_grandmaster-d hello canplay come in and have a seat class is in session magic raises her hand canplay thank You SGM, Sir lil.red.ridinghood i think there is an equal amount of responsibility on both the Dom and the sub in to maintain that balance. is that totally off? canplay goes to the back of the class to sit and watch quietly (she hopes) sex_grandmaster-d perhaps not completely equal but close red *S* sex_grandmaster-d magic? lil.red.ridinghood looks puzzled magic i think that's true, but a Dom/me cannot read minds either, and a sub/slave should not expect Them to, and a sub/slave should never feel afraid to ask a question of their Dom/me sex_grandmaster-d correct magic magic for clarification of anything asmodai_d smiling in agreement.... sex_grandmaster-d the problem with feeling that it is equal is sometimes the concept that somehow Dom/mes are mind readers sex_grandmaster-d We aren't brodies_lauraleigh it would make life easier if You were.. lil.red.ridinghood raises her hand again brodies_lauraleigh winks magic laughs sex_grandmaster-d raise first and wait to be called on laurie *S* asmodai_d chuckling brodies_lauraleigh o sorry sex_grandmaster-d it is the responsibility of the Dom/me to make sure the sub has a method of open communication at all times magic nodsnods sex_grandmaster-d although there may not be time to discuss the problem in full it can be scheduled for another time a_learning_dom {leaves} sex_grandmaster-d if it is a critical matter then the sub needs to make sure the Dom/me knows that you are feeling it is critical and can't wait john_g0767 {leaves} sex_grandmaster-d however you should be absolutely sure that it is critical john_g0767 {enters} john_g0767 {enters} lil.red.ridinghood forgets her question, puts her hand down sex_grandmaster-d this is where you have to ask yourself if a few hours or days will make a real difference in the resolution of the problem sex_grandmaster-d sorry red I missed your hand sex_grandmaster-d smiles brodies_lauraleigh {leaves} lil.red.ridinghood smiles 'sok sex_grandmaster-d if that happens again just wave your hand to get My attention *S* brodies_lauraleigh {enters} lil.red.ridinghood nods, i would have but by the time i thought about waving i'd forgotten what i wanted to say morsel_n_dw dw - raises my hand sex_grandmaster-d to continue ..... the wants and needs list is the foundation for emotional balance, communication is the tool that moves it along the path and patience is what smoothes that path sex_grandmaster-d dw? morsel_n_dw what if we are not 100 percent sure if it is critical, should we err on the side of caution Master? sex_grandmaster-d if your not sure you tell that to your Dom/me and get help deciding if it is morsel_n_dw dw - nods sex_grandmaster-d if you have a Protector and the subject is not too personal to discuss with Them you may also get help there lil.red.ridinghood raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d now how does this actually work to help your emotional balance when you feel there isn't the resolution that you need in the time you feel it is needed? john_g0767 {enters} sex_grandmaster-d red? lil.red.ridinghood maybe i'm too independent, but i want to think that i have enough brain in my head and am in touch with myself enough to decide whether an issue is critical to me on my own... magic raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d independence in that situation is an admirable trait red *S* sex_grandmaster-d magic? magic i agree with red, Sensei..i am intelligent enough to reason whether it's critical for immediate resolution and that's how i maintain my balance..if it's not life threatening, it can wait... sex_grandmaster-d although it is not and cannot be achieved by everyone magic smiles brightly lil.red.ridinghood nods sex_grandmaster-d correct magic *S* but for how long? asmodai_d nods in agreement with red and magic... canplay raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d canplay? canplay thank You Sir,,, i wonder for both red and magic,, how they respond if they felt it critical and their Master informs them it is not? can they be patient till He is ready sex_grandmaster-d good question canplay *S* lil.red.ridinghood raises her hand magic raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d I think it would also hinge on whether or not the Dom/me has explained why it isn't that critical sex_grandmaster-d red? lil.red.ridinghood if i've taken the time to consider the urgency of the issue and tried to express that to my Dom, one of two problems is occurring if W/we are not in agreement: sex_grandmaster-d nods sex_grandmaster-d and they are? lil.red.ridinghood 1. i'm not fully communicating all the reasons i have or 2. my Dom is not really listening to me (W/we're all human, it takes time and commitment to get tough issues resolved) sex_grandmaster-d good thinking red sex_grandmaster-d magic? magic like Sensei stated, if i felt it critical and my Dom explains to me that it is not and why it is not...then yes, i can certainly wait..thats not an issue for me... magic even if i don't agree canplay smiles lil.red.ridinghood raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d alright what has come to light here are some roadblocks in the road to Emotional Balance lil.red.ridinghood puts it down sex_grandmaster-d one being a failure of clear communication sex_grandmaster-d another the failure of keeping that line of communication open lil.red.ridinghood needs to scoot.. places a recorder on her desk next to a "Namaste" sign and sneaks out lil.red.ridinghood {leaves} sex_grandmaster-d also perhaps the failure of clarifying the topic of concern and it's urgency or resolving why it isn't as urgent as it appears sex_grandmaster-d One of the things that must be addressed in this process would be do you have a tendency to want immediate gratification? canplay nods morsel_n_dw nod sex_grandmaster-d modern life has taught M/many to live on immediate gratification sex_grandmaster-d I have one statement for that sex_grandmaster-d Get Over It asmodai_d lol.... asmodai_d raises my hand canplay raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d resolutions are in Dom/me time not sub time by default sex_grandmaster-d yes Asmo? magic giggles softly {enters} sex_grandmaster-d hello softly come in and have a seat class is in progress asmodai_d a symbol of need to communicate is often helpful....I think a candle that can be lit only for times when the sub wishes to discuss things is helpful...shows a need without having to ask.... softly slips in and quietly takes a seat, thank You Sir sex_grandmaster-d that is true Asmo and each C/couple needs a signal that indicates a subject is serious or needs immediate attention sex_grandmaster-d be it a phrase or something like lighting a candle magic nods to SirA...smiles sex_grandmaster-d this is also covered in the class on Communication sex_grandmaster-d canplay? canplay thanks Sir,, and yes i like idea of candle,, it is subtle.. i would like to make a comment on the immediate gratification.. canplay i feel there is a big difference depending on if the relationship is new,, i am trained basically with Pav love or Conditioning,, if no gratification early,, i tend to lose hope or feel that i am not pleasing enough. canplay goes back to sitting on her hands brodies_lauraleigh {leaves} sex_grandmaster-d then this would be a condition that hopefully was taught to you by your Dom/me and They understand this aspect of how you are trained sex_grandmaster-d again this condition would be clarified in the wants and needs list brodies_lauraleigh {enters} sex_grandmaster-d now I want to address the comment made at the beginning of class on whether the wants and needs are topping from the bottom sex_grandmaster-d topping from the bottom is by definition the person being in the role of bottom or submissive actually taking the lead and controlling what is happening by insisting on their interests being fulfilled first sex_grandmaster-d in other words placing their desires and wants or perceived needs in a higher priority than the Dom/mes magic thinks sex_grandmaster-d unfortunately in the Hollywood version of BDSM this is somewhat portrayed as the norm with the submissive using bad behavior to get their "punishment" brodies_lauraleigh thinks brodies_lauraleigh raises her hand.. sex_grandmaster-d in reality the punishment portrayed is exactly what turns the submissive on sex_grandmaster-d yes laurie? sex_grandmaster-d so it amounts to the Dom/me rewarding bad behavior and impatience with what the submissive is looking for brodies_lauraleigh i am a bit confused ..again.. don't we by nature want our needs and desires noted.. but that does not necessarily mean we WANT or NEED then to go before our Dom/mes sex_grandmaster-d that wasn't in question laurie ..... it is where you place the urgency of getting those wants and needs fulfilled brodies_lauraleigh hmmms sex_grandmaster-d if you do things to manipulate the time such as bad behavior or petulance then it is bordering on topping from the bottom canplay raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d in other words you are saying I don't care that you have other things to do I want this now and immediately sex_grandmaster-d canplay? canplay thanks again Sir,, i am trying to remain quiet,, anyhow, i was wondering,, by Your definition,, would my raising my butt during a flogging scene be considered topping? as i am directing in a way asmodai_d smiles.... sex_grandmaster-d no you aren't canplay .... you are responding and providing feedback morsel_n_dw dw nods canplay makes not of that explanation and smiles canplay note brodies_lauraleigh smiles at cany magic smiles at cany sex_grandmaster-d the difference is if you turn around and say flog that same spot again canplay am i not saying that? john_g0767 {leaves} magic raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d not actually *S* or at least I hope what you are saying is "I liked that spot can I have more?" john_g0767 {enters} canplay smiles and nods sex_grandmaster-d in My case for instance I may give more to that spot or I may tease and wait to come back to it later ....... but it is My choice sex_grandmaster-d a delicate difference to be sure but it boils down to attitude sex_grandmaster-d magic? magic if her Master is flogging her back say, and she raises her butt...is she silently saying flog this spot instead? sex_grandmaster-d that depends on how well the Dominant knows the sub magic ... again this is feedback and in sceneing something of this nature isn't necessarily considered topping magic ok, thank You Sensei sex_grandmaster-d sceneing is like a dance magic sex_grandmaster-d one step gets a response and another step is taken based on that response magic . o O ( mmmmm yesssss ) magic smiles sex_grandmaster-d this is different than the day to day interaction where the sub is manipulating things sex_grandmaster-d let Me try to clarify the difference here john_g0767 {enters} sex_grandmaster-d let's say that a Dom/me is having a conversation with Another and the sub wants or feels they are being left out sex_grandmaster-d wants attention that is a_learning_dom {enters} sex_grandmaster-d if they interrupt the conversation to get the attention or make a suggestion that they need to be scened then that is bordering on topping from the bottom canplay nods sex_grandmaster-d if on the other hand the Dom/me had told them to let them know when a certain play station was open and they do so politely it is not topping from the bottom as they are following orders sex_grandmaster-d again it boils down to the intent of the submissive morsel_n_dw nod canplay smiles at the word intent sex_grandmaster-d sometimes this can be readily seen by A/all and other times it is hidden magic listens intently sex_grandmaster-d but the sub knows in their heart what their intent is john_g0767 {enters} sex_grandmaster-d this is where your self-examination of who and what you are as well as how you deal with submission comes into play asmodai_d nodding... sex_grandmaster-d even if I don't know that you are trying to top from the bottom, if you are honest with yourself ...... you do sex_grandmaster-d so do you want to be submissive or just submissive on the things that you want to be at the moment? sex_grandmaster-d this relates solely to your Dom/me of course sex_grandmaster-d smiles sex_grandmaster-d once you put all of these together then you can begin to balance your emotional position sex_grandmaster-d is this making sense? canplay nods brodies_lauraleigh . o O ( feels the light bulb go on..smiles softly ) sex_grandmaster-d smiles and looks around at the class morsel_n_dw nod magic nods... sex_grandmaster-d chances are if you choose only to be submissive when you feel like it you will be topping from the bottom or at least trying to top from the bottom brodies_lauraleigh raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d if it doesn't work with your Dom/me then you will be disappointed most of the time sex_grandmaster-d laurie? brodies_lauraleigh or maybe just maybe.. you cant se until you can see.. and i am seeing now.. i never thought of this is way and i want to thank You very very much f sex_grandmaster-d smiles at laurie morsel_n_dw dw smiles brodies_lauraleigh . o O ( thinks i owe my Master a ton of apologies ) canplay please excuse me, Master has called. *smiles,waves and sneaks out* canplay {leaves} sex_grandmaster-d if it has helped you I am happy and you're welcome sex_grandmaster-d now then who is responsible for your emotional balance? sex_grandmaster-d looks around the class a_learning_dom raises his hand sex_grandmaster-d Learning? morsel_n_dw dw raises my hand a_learning_dom It would be the Dom/mes responsibility for T/there emotional balance correct? sex_grandmaster-d sorry not exactly Learning *S* sex_grandmaster-d dw? sex_grandmaster-d I'll explain that in a moment Learning a_learning_dom Nods brodies_lauraleigh raises her hand morsel_n_dw we are responsible for our own emotional balance Master, with guidance from the Dom/me as needed? sex_grandmaster-d exactly dw sex_grandmaster-d laurie? brodies_lauraleigh puts her hand down brodies_lauraleigh dw said it sex_grandmaster-d alright and this goes for Dom/mes as well Y/you are responsible for Y/you emotional balance because Y/you should know Y/yourself best and what Y/your intentions are sex_grandmaster-d the Dom/me is responsible to help you and facilitate your understanding of who and what you are shedevil {enters} sex_grandmaster-d you are responsible for being open and honest with your Dom/me so they can assist you shedevil SGM..... smiles morsel_n_dw nod sex_grandmaster-d hello shedevil come in and have a seat class is in progress shedevil Thank You SGM sex_grandmaster-d did that clear that point up Learning? sex_grandmaster-d smiles a_learning_dom Yes it did SGM ty sex_grandmaster-d nods sex_grandmaster-d ok are there any questions or comments at this point? morsel_n_dw no Master/Sensei sex_grandmaster-d looks around sex_grandmaster-d ok to recap class then sex_grandmaster-d the foundation for Emotional balance is the wants and needs list and defining which is which sex_grandmaster-d communication with your Dom/me and agreeing on the list or working to set the list in order sex_grandmaster-d then keeping the communication open sex_grandmaster-d Patience to smooth out the road of Emotional balance sex_grandmaster-d knowing yourself and facing the truth sex_grandmaster-d have I left anything out? sex_grandmaster-d looks around sex_grandmaster-d I guess not LOL magic shakes her head. morsel_n_dw dw doesn't think so Master sex_grandmaster-d any comments or discussion? asmodai_d raises my hand sex_grandmaster-d Asmo? magic looks back over her shoulder at SirA asmodai_d a Dom/me / sub relationship is a partnership...trust and respect is a two way street and with that comes communication. B/both parties have to feel this or nothing will work.... sex_grandmaster-d yes that is an ideal relationship Asmo sex_grandmaster-d smiles sex_grandmaster-d alright then class is dismissed, Y/you may stay and chat or discuss if Y/you like again