Neglect or presumed neglect and action or reaction 11-23-2002 sex_grandmaster-d so the topic should really be regarding neglect or presumed neglect? brodies_lauraleigh thinks on how i was asked earlier.. sex_grandmaster-d and reaction or action regarding that? brodies_lauraleigh that's good ,.. yes Sensei.. lil_devil nods at Sensei sex_grandmaster-d alright the first thing I'm going to dredge up is the word Communication brodies_lauraleigh smiles and listens sex_grandmaster-d then the phrase "jumping to conclusion* sex_grandmaster-d and also "assuming" francescas_dragonwarrior listens lil_devil winces, listening -scarlet- . o O ( knows the meaning of assume ~smiles~ ) lil_devil listening sex_grandmaster-d now I will also tell you that Dom/mes are guilty of or have the same problems sex_grandmaster-d I think first W/we need to see how the feelings of neglect come about sex_grandmaster-d I won't be telling you that it doesn't happen because it does sex_grandmaster-d and by the way this also occurs in vanilla relationships as well sex_grandmaster-d generally the feelings of neglect involve one of the 2 parties feeling that the other isn't paying enough attention to them sex_grandmaster-d you feel you have a need to be noticed or a need to communicate in some fashion sex_grandmaster-d and the other party isn't reciprocating or fulfilling that need sex_grandmaster-d so you feel that T/they aren't there when you need T/them sex_grandmaster-d of course a Dominant usually won't hesitate to call the sub on that score sex_grandmaster-d it's a little tougher for the sub to bring this up to the Dominant sex_grandmaster-d isn't that the case? sex_grandmaster-d smiles and looks around the class brodies_lauraleigh nods slowly lil_devil nods -scarlet- yes and no Sir sex_grandmaster-d please explain scarlet *S* sgms_annie . o O ( hmmm i don't think so ) sex_grandmaster-d . o O ( looks like 2 for and two against, with 2 abstaining from commenting ) brodies_lauraleigh . o O ( my nod is a maybe ) brodies_lauraleigh . o O ( maybe even ) sex_grandmaster-d chuckles clytemnestra . o O ( no experience - therefore, i cannot comment ) brodies_lauraleigh raises her hand.. sex_grandmaster-d scarlet? francescas_dragonwarrior nods as i get back -scarlet- well Sensei, and i am only speaking for my relationship with my Master, but it is my duty, and right to tell Him what i am feeling, and if that includes neglect, so be it sex_grandmaster-d very good scarlet *S* sex_grandmaster-d laurie? brodies_lauraleigh i think one should be able to express anything if done respectfully sex_grandmaster-d nods to laurie sex_grandmaster-d and this is the way it should be but unfortunately it isn't always brodies_lauraleigh how else do You all know us? sex_grandmaster-d an sometimes the sub begins to feel like they are whining or pushing the Dom/me lil_devil nods -scarlet- raises my hand sex_grandmaster-d now this is where the word Communication enters the picture sex_grandmaster-d yes scarlet? francescas_dragonwarrior nods -scarlet- then it is important, for both the Dom/me and sub, to think about their feelings, to understand them first before talking with the O/other (so not to whine) sex_grandmaster-d well scarlet feelings are individual and many times nebulous francescas_dragonwarrior {enters} sex_grandmaster-d the question is should you be feeling this and why are you feeling this sex_grandmaster-d not always so easily answered francescas_dragonwarrior {leaves} francescas_dragonwarrior {enters} -scarlet- nods yes Sensei .... that is closer to what i was trying to say sex_grandmaster-d before I talk about Communication though let's define action and reaction francescas_dragonwarrior listens lil_devil takes notes sex_grandmaster-d action is generally considered to be something that you think about before doing it sex_grandmaster-d in other words you make a conscious decision to take this particular step sex_grandmaster-d and in the particular fashion that you take it sex_grandmaster-d so you have planned or reasoned out what you are going to do sirddr_d {enters} sex_grandmaster-d nods to Ddr sirddr_d smiles and quietly slips to the back sex_grandmaster-d now a reaction on the other hand is generally considered an involuntary response sex_grandmaster-d something that you do without thinking or factoring in what this action will cause sex_grandmaster-d also a reaction is usually immediate in nature rather than happening over time sex_grandmaster-d there is room for confusion here though as sometimes the reaction occurs from things that happen over a period of time sex_grandmaster-d sort of like the straw that broke the camels back francescas_dragonwarrior listens sex_grandmaster-d can anyone tell Me how this happens? -scarlet- raises my hand sex_grandmaster-d scarlet? -scarlet- not talking about O/ones feelings early on, and letting things build and build Sensei? sex_grandmaster-d exactly scarlet -scarlet- then the dam breaks, usually over something very small, and something not really related to the problem sex_grandmaster-d it happens by refusing to take action in the form of communication when you should sex_grandmaster-d particularly when the issue is important and you aren't letting it go -scarlet- nods sgms_annie listens sex_grandmaster-d or even if it is unimportant and you're not letting it go sirddr_d raises hand sex_grandmaster-d now then this is where communication plays an important part in the process francescas_dragonwarrior listens sex_grandmaster-d Yes Ddr? sirddr_d hopes it is ok to add something.....if it is something that causes a buildup of emotion large enough to cause a "reaction", then it can never be unimportant sgms_annie raises my hand sex_grandmaster-d of course it's fine to add Your comments Ddr *S* sex_grandmaster-d yes annie? sgms_annie it seems to me that "reaction" to something that has built up is deceitful...keeping something from your Dom/me brodies_lauraleigh raises her hand.. sex_grandmaster-d that may be so as well annie, but it does happen *S* sex_grandmaster-d yes laurie? sgms_annie yes it does Master *S* brodies_lauraleigh sometimes i thing we might become aware and it snaps.. brodies_lauraleigh so i cant see that as deceit... brodies_lauraleigh for me .. brodies_lauraleigh i can only hear and see when i can sex_grandmaster-d that is true as well laurie and what I was using was only one example of the causes for reaction -scarlet- raises my hand sex_grandmaster-d smiles sex_grandmaster-d scarlet? -scarlet- when O/one feels taken for granted, i think O/one reacts to everything, rather than act -scarlet- and not reacts in a positive, good way lil_devil nods listening sex_grandmaster-d ok and that also involves communication at the beginning does it not? -scarlet- yes Sensei, it does ... sgms_annie nods sex_grandmaster-d now let's examine some other reasons for reaction sex_grandmaster-d baggage francescas_dragonwarrior listens sex_grandmaster-d stuff you have carried with you from previous relationships can cause you to react instead of taking positive action sex_grandmaster-d or even lifelong things from childhood can sometimes cause a reaction to a perceived wrong sex_grandmaster-d training can cause reactions, although these reactions are generally supposed to be good reactions sex_grandmaster-d any other things that can cause a reaction good or bad? sex_grandmaster-d looks around -scarlet- raises my hand sex_grandmaster-d scarlet? -scarlet- outside forces .... like a bad day at work ...... sex_grandmaster-d well yes but that falls under the category of baggage that you have brought home from work sex_grandmaster-d there are many places to pick up baggage sex_grandmaster-d not as many places to store it sex_grandmaster-d which brings up the point of dumping the baggage sex_grandmaster-d why do you carry around useless stuff? sgms_annie wonders -scarlet- raises my hand sirddr_d raises hand sex_grandmaster-d some use it as a security blanket when it should be used as a learning tool instead *S* sex_grandmaster-d scarlet? sgms_annie raises my hand -scarlet- O/one has not resolved the issue Sensei, so O/one cannot "pack it away"? sex_grandmaster-d possibly scarlet *S* sex_grandmaster-d Ddr? sirddr_d old habits can be very hard to break sex_grandmaster-d nods sex_grandmaster-d annie? sgms_annie immaturity sex_grandmaster-d Hmmmmmmmmmm I wouldn't call it that annie *S* I know some very mature people that have a lot of baggage sgms_annie raises my hand sex_grandmaster-d what it amounts to is that either W/we can't or won't deal with the issues involved so it's stuffed away and saved for later, many times this happens without even being aware of it sex_grandmaster-d yes annie? francescas_dragonwarrior nods as i listen sgms_annie to harbor a feeling to the point that it becomes a problem...depending on the problem...would mean to me that one hasn't grown (immaturity) sex_grandmaster-d that is true if the feeling can be dealt with and Y/you choose not to deal with it or take action on it sgms_annie smiles and listens sex_grandmaster-d scarlet I want to address your remark about packing it away -scarlet- listens sex_grandmaster-d what your saying there is that you are still storing that baggage -scarlet- well, not always Sensei sex_grandmaster-d what you should do instead is throw it away sex_grandmaster-d packing it is saving it sex_grandmaster-d get rid of it after dealing with it an learning from it -scarlet- raises my hand sex_grandmaster-d in many cases you find that the issues in the baggage are no longer relevant to your life now so you examine them try to understand them and toss them out in the garbage sex_grandmaster-d yes scarlet? -scarlet- i don't think that W/we can ever get rid of things that are in O/our past, as they are just stored, some forgotten, but they are still there .. somewhere ... they are a part of U/us, they are a part that makes U/us who W/we are ... brodies_lauraleigh agrees francescas_dragonwarrior nods lil_devil nods thinking sex_grandmaster-d the difference scarlet is if the baggage is still influencing you negatively then it isn't in the past, it is in your future -scarlet- agrees sex_grandmaster-d it is in your present, it hasn't made you what you are it is still influencing what you think and do because it exists sex_grandmaster-d now I think I see some confusion here on what baggage is sex_grandmaster-d smiles sex_grandmaster-d indeed you are made up of your past experiences, teachings, influences good and bad that have happened to you sex_grandmaster-d baggage however is the bad things that you carry with you like a badge, allowing it to color your perception of life and O/others sex_grandmaster-d all of the good things that happened you put on a shelf and admire them don't W/we? lil_devil nods smiling sex_grandmaster-d W/we say boy that was fun or that person was really great to M/me sex_grandmaster-d the bad things Y/you put in a duffel bag and carry them around just in case things don't work out sex_grandmaster-d then you pull one out and say ..... ah T/they are acting just like so and so sex_grandmaster-d or Uh-oh this new situation looks just like what happened way back here sex_grandmaster-d or well I would try that but I did something similar this time and it didn't work out so I'm will probably fail at this sex_grandmaster-d unfortunately W/we don't carry around equal amounts of good and bad baggage sex_grandmaster-d why? because all of the good stuff is out on the shelf where W/we can look at it matt {enters} sex_grandmaster-d anyway I think W/we have drifted way off of the original subject of class LOL matt Could i please come in? sgms_annie tells matt the rules in pm sex_grandmaster-d come in and have a seat matt, class is in session and no need to ask during class sex_grandmaster-d smiles matt sorry, thanks sex_grandmaster-d now was that making sense at all before I get back to the subject? sex_grandmaster-d looks around the class sgms_annie total sense -scarlet- nods lil_devil nods sex_grandmaster-d tries to recall the original subject sex_grandmaster-d ok feelings of neglect sex_grandmaster-d communication sex_grandmaster-d if you don't already have an open channel of communication with your Dom/me you need to set that up sex_grandmaster-d the key is to let your Dom/me know that you have a concern and address it early on sex_grandmaster-d however matt they might not care sex_grandmaster-d you also have to be open to listening to what They have to say about the situation matt puts up my hand brodies_lauraleigh raises her hand sex_grandmaster-d yes matt? matt i forgot, sorry sex_grandmaster-d nods sex_grandmaster-d laurie? brodies_lauraleigh One answer given in the discussion this morning was maybe the Dom/me is not the right One, which i disagreed with i think it is all about learning about each O/other...the willingness.... lil_devil smiles at laurie brodies_lauraleigh hugs you francescas_dragonwarrior {leaves} francescas_dragonwarrior {enters} sex_grandmaster-d well laurie I think that should have been determined prior to getting in deep in the relationship brodies_lauraleigh nods brodies_lauraleigh raises her hand again... sex_grandmaster-d if you are just beginning the relationship and you can't talk and discuss these things then perhaps it isn't the right Dom/me sex_grandmaster-d yes laurie? brodies_lauraleigh one of the questions this sub asked was .. He left me without a word. is that a reaction or action? i didn't know how to answer it.. brodies_lauraleigh not in leaving forever brodies_lauraleigh but for the moment.. sex_grandmaster-d I think something is missing in the question there *S* is it asking whether it was an action or reaction from the Dom/me? sirddr_d nods to SGM in agreement brodies_lauraleigh yes Sensei brodies_lauraleigh sorry i didn't clarify brodies_lauraleigh they asked if that is a responsible move on the Domme s side... sex_grandmaster-d as asked the question is lacking the necessary facts to even guess an answer brodies_lauraleigh hmmmmms ok lil_devil . o O ( believes it was a reaction to behavior ) sex_grandmaster-d what occurred prior to the Dom/me leaving? was there a discussion or argument? brodies_lauraleigh yes Sir .. she said she was deliberately being bad sex_grandmaster-d did the sub do something that the Dom/me didn't like? brodies_lauraleigh so she said.. sex_grandmaster-d alright then let's examine the possibilities of what happened *S* brodies_lauraleigh she was using negative ways to get attention... brodies_lauraleigh listens sex_grandmaster-d in all honesty the only One that can answer the question is the Dom/me themselves though sex_grandmaster-d here are some scenarios though lil_devil listens lil_devil listens sex_grandmaster-d the Dom has spent time to try training the sub in the behavior pattern that they wish, however in this case the sub deliberately misbehaves in a manner they know is unacceptable francescas_dragonwarrior listens sex_grandmaster-d is this a credible supposition here? lil_devil nods brodies_lauraleigh smiles hugging lil lil_devil gratefully accepts hug sex_grandmaster-d ok then the Dom can respond in several ways given this scenario sex_grandmaster-d He can take action in a couple of ways, one being an immediate punishment of the sub sex_grandmaster-d however doesn't this play into the subs hand? giving them the attention they were misbehaving for lil_devil nods understanding sex_grandmaster-d or He can restrict the sub in some manner right at that point sex_grandmaster-d or He could react without thinking lashing out at the sub in some manner sex_grandmaster-d all of these tend to play right into what the sub was misbehaving for doesn't it? sgms_annie nods sex_grandmaster-d thereby validating the subs intentional misbehavior lil_devil raises hand sex_grandmaster-d they got what they wanted sex_grandmaster-d yes lil d? lil_devil so by leaving He was showing it wouldn't work Sensei? lil_devil the behavior I mean sex_grandmaster-d well I would have to say that is something I would strongly consider lil d lil_devil ty Sensei sex_grandmaster-d in other words it was an action, most likely taken with a certain amount of thought brodies_lauraleigh smiles sex_grandmaster-d any response would have played into the subs scenario sirddr_d raises hand sex_grandmaster-d He could have sat there and ignored the sub of course which is another choice, however again I have to say that the Dom involved is the only one qualified to answer the question sex_grandmaster-d yes Ddr? sirddr_d My opinion, even if the Dom sees that hanging up, walking out, or signing off is the right treatment to that kind of manipulation, They should still say that they recognize the manipulation and that it will not work. Just storming off in silence can produce undesirable effects, Again, communication is important lil_devil nods recalling the results sex_grandmaster-d indeed Ddr and W/who is to say that They won't email the information informing the sub that they recognized the attempt at manipulation lil_devil squirms sex_grandmaster-d We have to remember that hindsight is always 20/20 and We are second-guessing here about the reasoning sirddr_d nods and agrees sex_grandmaster-d for instance was this the first offense or had it occurred before? lil_devil raises hand sex_grandmaster-d had the sub been warned in a prior incidence? sex_grandmaster-d as Dom/mes We tend to feel that it's only necessary to make the statement once *S* sex_grandmaster-d yes lil d? sex_grandmaster-d is not One to count to 3 with fractions lil_devil lowering head, there was a similar warning, previously, different situation though sex_grandmaster-d ahhhhhh well then that puts a different slant on the outcome doesn't it? sex_grandmaster-d smiles lil_devil nods agreement sex_grandmaster-d and was the previous warning discussed thoroughly? lil_devil yes Sensei, was a misunderstanding sex_grandmaster-d but the warning wasn't misunderstood was it? sex_grandmaster-d smiles lil_devil not at all, I adjusted my behavior accordingly sex_grandmaster-d until sex_grandmaster-d smiles sex_grandmaster-d this brings up a point sex_grandmaster-d if you are told and trained in what acceptable behavior is should you apply this to similar instances sex_grandmaster-d for example .... One says I don't tolerate topping from the bottom lil_devil nods going red sex_grandmaster-d should that also be extended to topping from the side? or is it ok to fudge a little? -scarlet- raises hand sex_grandmaster-d should the sub apply that statement to all forms of topping? sex_grandmaster-d yes scarlet? -scarlet- i believe W/we all test the water Sensei, like when W/we were children ..... to see how serious the Dom/me is .... like in childhood, a child is told not to do something specific, and they don't do it that particular way again, but try a different approach (topping from the side) ... sex_grandmaster-d nods sirddr_d would like to add something? matt puts up my hand sex_grandmaster-d and shouldn't you then expect the same response of discipline in some form? perhaps a bit different because you apparently didn't learn the first time *S* sex_grandmaster-d yes Ddr? -scarlet- nods yes Sensei sirddr_d Some of U/us choose to call this Lifestyle a Power Exchange. One of the reasons W/we are here is to not be engaged in a power struggle. (more) sex_grandmaster-d then in this case the sub found out that the Dom was indeed serious ...... the hard way lil_devil nods sirddr_d A submissive that consciously chooses to make it a power struggle has to really look hard at their expectations from the Dom/me, the Lifestyle, and themselves -scarlet- raises my hand sex_grandmaster-d Well said Ddr and I agree sex_grandmaster-d matt? matt what if the Dom/me doesn't do anything about it does that mean they don't mind it or that they don't notice it or that they notice it but don't care? sirddr_d can speak to matt's question from My own experience,,,,ok, SGM? sex_grandmaster-d I would be fairly certain that the Dom/me cares one way or another, perhaps they are contemplating what They are going to do sex_grandmaster-d sure Ddr sex_grandmaster-d smiles matt i didn't have this experience i just wondered lil_devil listens sirddr_d I have encouraged My celine to speak with Me that way, matt, to share her thoughts on many topics and never be afraid to approach Me with anything,,(more) francescas_dragonwarrior listens sirddr_d she knows that she can offer her thoughts, and that the final decisions are Mine. She knows I am not threatened by what she says and I respect her opinions (more) sirddr_d and unlike one Dom in particular (who I observed bitching out His sub by saying "if I wanted your opinion, I would have given it to you") I know that any time I even raise an eyebrow, My celine will remember her sub role sirddr_d It is all about fostering better communication and trust. sex_grandmaster-d nods to Ddr matt Thank You for answering me Sir sirddr_d nods and smiles sex_grandmaster-d I think matt was asking more about misbehavior and the lack of response to that sex_grandmaster-d looks at matt sirddr_d laughs and waits for the next boat sex_grandmaster-d I'm not sure Ddr just the way I read it LOL sex_grandmaster-d scarlet? matt Yes, Sir but Sir Ddr's answer was a good one too -scarlet- i agree with You SirDDr (to Your previous statement), and if this "power struggle" is a continuing conflict, then both sides need to look seriously at T/their relationship, but don't You think that in the beginnings of a relationship, a bit of a "power struggle" normally occurs .. it is one way of setting boundaries, of setting acceptable and unacceptable behavior ..... sex_grandmaster-d looks at Ddr because He opened this particular can of worms sex_grandmaster-d and I have a comment on Your statement as well Ddr *S* sirddr_d My feeling, scarlet, is it is all about how it is done. What W/we do is the result of a lot of negotiations. Just like some enjoy one kind of "sport" and hate another, so it is with negotiations. If it works, then, it works -scarlet- nods sex_grandmaster-d nods sex_grandmaster-d and Your last statement goes along with My comment sirddr_d listens sex_grandmaster-d W/we do have to recognize that there are T/those in this lifestyle that are here for the Power Struggle sex_grandmaster-d however relationships work a lot better it B/both are in it for the same thing, that is the process of finding the right P/partner sirddr_d nodsnods -scarlet- nods sex_grandmaster-d if the sub needs to have that continual Power struggle then certainly they should find a Dom/me that is looking for the same thing from the other side sex_grandmaster-d now to address jumping to conclusions and assuming francescas_dragonwarrior {leaves} sex_grandmaster-d earlier there was a prime example of a set up in which both could have been exercised sex_grandmaster-d there wasn't enough information supplied to really answer the question asked sex_grandmaster-d and W/we could have made assumptions sex_grandmaster-d W/we could have jumped to conclusions sex_grandmaster-d but after communicating and getting the pertinent facts there was an entirely different picture of the question formed -scarlet- . o O ( assume = making an ASS of U and ME ) brodies_lauraleigh amen lil_devil hehe sex_grandmaster-d resulting in giving U/us more choices for why the action or reaction happened sex_grandmaster-d now then what have W/we learned today if anything? sex_grandmaster-d smiles and looks at the class sgms_annie smiles matt puts up my hand sex_grandmaster-d matt? matt to communicate! :) sex_grandmaster-d nods sex_grandmaster-d communication is a very powerful tool in a relationship ...... use it -scarlet- raises my hand sex_grandmaster-d scarlet? -scarlet- also, the importance in finding a Dom/me and/or sub that is on the same page as Y/you .... that what Y/you are looking for in a relationship is compatible (which goes back to communication) lil_devil raises hand sex_grandmaster-d nods sex_grandmaster-d lil d? lil_devil that certain behavior will not bring the results you seek sex_grandmaster-d well let Me rephrase that a little lil d lil_devil . o O ( that came out kinda wrong ) lil_devil listens sex_grandmaster-d you can't be certain that your behavior will result in what you want unless it is the proper behavior that your Dom/me has prescribed *S* lil_devil nods sex_grandmaster-d anyone else? sgms_annie smiles sgms_annie raises my hand sex_grandmaster-d annie? sirddr_d thanks SGM and everyone for allowing Me to sit in sex_grandmaster-d O/our pleasure Ddr come back anytime *S* -scarlet- wiggles my fingers at SirDDr (good to have seen You again Sir) sgms_annie how you react to baggage determines if you have moved on or if its still present sex_grandmaster-d . o O ( no need to leave unless you're in a hurry though as discussion will probably follow ) sex_grandmaster-d nods sex_grandmaster-d anything else? sirddr_d is not rushing out just yet brodies_lauraleigh well i think sex_grandmaster-d nods to Ddr and smiles brodies_lauraleigh Wwe all need to remember Wwe are human in all of this lil_devil smiles sex_grandmaster-d nods to laurie and reminds her about raising hands brodies_lauraleigh oO sorry sex_grandmaster-d ok a couple of important things are still missing here sex_grandmaster-d anyone? sex_grandmaster-d actually they are real important lil_devil raises hand sgms_annie raises my hand sex_grandmaster-d lil d? lil_devil think a little more before you react lil_devil react sex_grandmaster-d meaning? lil_devil meaning if thought is put into it, you are more likely to do what is right, instead of just an emotional reaction lil_devil removes the m sex_grandmaster-d very Important for both Dom/mes and subs sex_grandmaster-d DON'T jump to conclusions sex_grandmaster-d annie? sgms_annie express regularly...don't let it build up to the point of breaking the camels back...communication is speaking as well as listening sex_grandmaster-d good point annie, sometimes W/we forget there are two sides to communication ....... listening then speaking sex_grandmaster-d and what is the other important factor? -scarlet- raises hand sex_grandmaster-d scarlet? -scarlet- don't assume Sensei? sex_grandmaster-d thank you scarlet sex_grandmaster-d smiles -scarlet- smiles sex_grandmaster-d now before dismissing class I am going to give Y/you one more piece of advice sgms_annie listens lil_devil listens carefully matt listens brodies_lauraleigh listens sex_grandmaster-d Apologizing and admitting when Y/you are wrong is a very powerful element in making a relationship work -scarlet- nods n nods sex_grandmaster-d it goes both ways Dom/me and sub brodies_lauraleigh nods agreeing sex_grandmaster-d smiles lil_devil . o O ( has a major apology to make ) matt raises my hand sgms_annie smiles sex_grandmaster-d I would say that in the situation in question that an apology from the sub would go a long ways as well as acknowledgement that they were wrong sex_grandmaster-d smiles lil_devil nods sex_grandmaster-d matt? matt Do Dom/mes really apologize? sex_grandmaster-d it will also show a lot of growth lil d *S* brodies_lauraleigh yesssss brodies_lauraleigh raises her hands lil_devil smiles sex_grandmaster-d I do and have matt, I can't speak for All Others though sex_grandmaster-d yes laurie? sirddr_d apologies without shame matt for some reason it's hard to imagine them doing it brodies_lauraleigh One of the many things i admire about my Master IS He has the ability brodies_lauraleigh to apologize sex_grandmaster-d there is no shame in apologizing, it shows character and strength in both P/parties brodies_lauraleigh it makes me remember He is human sex_grandmaster-d smiles at laurie sex_grandmaster-d alright then any other questions or comments? lil_devil none here -scarlet- thank You for the class Sensei ... it was very thought provoking and interesting brodies_lauraleigh raises her hand again sex_grandmaster-d laurie? sex_grandmaster-d you're welcome scarlet -scarlet- . o O ( raises my hand after the fact ... i apologize ) -scarlet- smiles brodies_lauraleigh i wanted say how much i appreciate these classes... and the awareness i learn about my self and lil_devil agrees with laurie brodies_lauraleigh the relationship(s) i have here sex_grandmaster-d smiles at laurie sex_grandmaster-d I'm glad that S/some find something of value in the classes laurie thank you sex_grandmaster-d class is dismissed, feel free to stay and visit or discuss freely